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thistle zine '95
interview with autumn, feb 1995.

autumn ~fall into grace~

"this is our new song. it's about the story of my life," julie seethes bitterly into the microphone as jeff pounds out the opening lines of `how it came to be this way.' the rhythm is low and insistent; anger and frustration emerge as neil staccatos in his guitar, each string a hanging question. julie raises her fists, defiant around the microphone. "when candles and incense are not enough/ to dispel the death i die everyday. . ." the deep music swells and withdraws, expectantly holding its breath as julie reveals the shards that have cut her life. jeff's bass carries the heavy emotional burden as neil's guitar weeps in disbelief. tearing at the air as the song draws to an end, julie vows her revenge, "when they claw for table scraps tonight/ i shall kill them one by one. . . ."

the originating members of autumn, jeff leyda (bass) and neil mckay (guitar and drum programming), met at a coffee shop the first week in december 1989. jeff had just moved to minneapolis from milwaukee, and was responding to an ad of neil's he saw in a local record store. they immediately knew they should work together, and the band that was later to become autumn was born. "we started off by playing those crazy cure covers," neil told me when i met with the band for this interview. "we've evolved since then. the musicianship is much better, but our music is still in the same vein." four years and countless numbers of singers later, julie plante stepped onto the stage with autumn and demanded the attention that the band deserved. "we were trying out singers again, and julie answered our ad," said jeff. "i took a tape of our music to her the night she called, and she called me back later that night. she had so many ideas, and she'd only had the tape for about four hours. "neil and i hadn't quite made up our minds about singers, but we really wanted to go into the studio and record something. we asked julie if she wanted to help. . . and the song `a waiting time' was born. julie is definitely the best singer we've had; i hope we never have to look for another." autumn's music, most easily filed under 'gothic,' escapes beyond the boundaries of campy 'goth whining' to present a bold and conscious strength. the band became an instant favorite of mine, and what follows is an interview they granted me recently. (the highly talented group has many exciting things in the works, so keep your eyes peeled. . . !)

thistle: what has inspired you the most to create music?

jeff: when i was sixteen i went to see die kreuzen play in lacrosse; it was my first show ever. they played a song called `number three,' and the combination of the lights, bass and guitar was so amazing that gave me chills for three or four minutes straight. i thought to myself, "if i ever become a musician and can do that to somebody, then happiness is achieved." i hope that my music can give someone chills.

neil: my parents have always urged me to play an instrument, especially since my dad has been a musician all his life. i always turned music away, though, until i started to listen to new wave and gothic. i thought to myself that i could do that. so i started to play music. by that time i wasn't happy with a lot of the music that was out, and i wanted to create a music that i would like and others would enjoy. the music i wanted to make would be different and better that any of the music that was currently being played; it would convey emotion, yet be danceable without sucking.

julie: as far as my personal desire to create music is concerned. . . . the simplest way to put it is, if i wasn't creating music- - writing, performing, playing or whatever- - i would wither away and die. music, for me, was my primary survival mechanism when i was growing up. i had piano lessons for fifteen years, and clarinet lessons for twelve years. it was my primary way of communicating, my catharsis, my way of letting go and dealing with everything in my life. at that time i mainly devoted myself to the technique part, being able to master difficult composers and pieces, such as list. i became obsessed with it. eventually i would just sit at the piano and play and play and play...it was my equivalent of writing in a journal. i would make things up as i sat there. that's when i got into composing, and that's why i originally moved to minneapolis. i was going to major in piano composition at the school of music. i still write new age music, that's one of my interests. i have to be able to express myself for survival, i have to be able to let go of everything inside so i don't die.

thistle: julie, why did you pick up singing, instead of staying with piano, or playing keyboards in a band?

julie: i never sang before in my life, although i had wanted to. to be honest. . .i guess i trained so long, did so much keyboard work, did all this stuff, but i had such low self esteem about my work that, no matter how many competitions i was in, or how good everyone said i was, i thought i was horrid. it got to the point that i would have anxiety attacks, and i had to drop out of the school of music. i couldn't enjoy the playing any more. the reason i auditioned for autumn was as a test for myself. i needed to prove to myself that i wasn't afraid to try again, and i knew i needed to be involved in music. trying out was a self- esteem booster, especially since they asked me to join.

thistle: it does seem like you have a lot of vocal training, though, since you have an incredible vocal range.

julie: i think that's mostly from the general training that i've had, so i have a good ear for pitch. well, i guess i have sung a lot, but never when any one was around. when i was in high school, and my parents would take a walk, that was it! the stereo would be up, i'd be in the living room singing at the top of my lungs; but never in front of anyone else.

jeff: it takes a lot of guts to be a singer in a band.

julie: and that's what is so weird. . . . it's the easiest thing i've ever done. its so ironic. singing with this band feels so natural- - i've come out of this shell that i'd been in so long. i never would've felt this free if i'd stayed with piano. i never felt enough confidence or self assurance about my work on other instruments. autumn was this miracle.

neil: that's almost how i feel. when i work on autumn songs, or other personal work, i feel really proficient, like nothing can stop me. but when i work on classical, or with my dad, who plays country western, i just don't feel like my musicianship is up to par. classical is very black and white. you're either right or wrong, you have to play the songs the way they were originally written. but your own music is from your heart. classical can come form the heart, but you didn't write it. when i play with autumn, i'm projecting myself into the music, instead of, "hey, listen to this, i can play so- and- so."

julie: that makes sense, though. for me, when i was in competitions, i could premiere one of my own compositions without being nervous about it much easier than a piece i'd worked on for a year and a half, and could play blindfolded with one arm behind my back. it is so ironic.

thistle: when you write songs is it as a group, or mainly you, neil, working with jeff?

neil: some of them are accidental, like our newest song, `atrophy.' i was messing with a classical tuning, was playing some little thing, and jeff told me to keep playing. not even an hour later we had a complete song written, which we gave to julie to see if she wanted to change anything. other times we'll have an idea, jam on it, add something else here and there, and eventually it becomes a song. right now we're working on something that julie had an idea for, and that's about half-way completed. i think that right now jeff and i write most of the music because, before julie came along, that's how we wrote. now the writing has evolved to where we all pitch in.

julie: it was really weird stepping in when they had been writing together for years. they had so many songs, instrumental pieces, and half of the songs had lyrics form previous vocalists. neil and jeff were already used to the previous `finished songs,' for which i never heard the lyrics. i was put into the position of rewriting the lyrics, reconceptualizing the songs, hoping that they would be okay. half of our repertoire is left over songs from before me, and i rewrote the lyrics. sometimes i'd suggest modifications so that it felt right to me.

thistle: currently you work with a programmed drum machine. do you think having a drummer would free you up creatively?

neil: it would be less mental strain on me, because i have to make sure that the drums sound right, that the midi channel and the programming are all split up correctly for the mixing. right now, if we were to go on tour, i might have to bring 10 back- up discs of the same disc, just so that i can have peace of mind that when i load the keyboard up and it says `disc error,' we won't have to cancel the rest of the tour. i also think it would be fun, and there wouldn't be the gaps between songs for loading the information.

jeff: i'd like to have a drummer, although it will be strange to break up our trio. but not having a drummer is one of our lacking points. people always come up to us and say, "you'd be great if you'd get a drummer." it's not that i want to impress other people, but having live drums would allow us to be spontaneous, not preprogrammed. but our `sound' wouldn't change at all, i wouldn't let that happen.

julie: i'm nervous. i wouldn't mind having a drummer playing live shows, because that's what people seem to want. but, especially with a lot of the music i listen to, i like being able to mold the sound. i like programmed drums, and that's what i'd like to have in the studio. that's why i'm nervous about a live drummer.

neil: i can go either way, drummer or drum machine. a few years ago jeff and i looked for a real drummer, and it didn't work out. if we can find someone who plays along the lines of what i program, then i wouldn't have a problem with a drummer.

thistle: when you're on stage performing, what does it feel like? what do you think about, what do you see?

jeff: i'm just trying not to screw up. i tend to get really nervous, just before a show, and during half of the first song. then i realize i'm doing something i'm extremely comfortable with, and all these fears are really not necessary. if i wasn't comfortable, i wouldn't be on the stage. but its definitely exciting, being up there and seeing people looking at you, appreciating what you do. and when people come up to you afterwards, and tell you that you gave them chills, its a good thing.

neil: what do i think when i'm up on stage? its a varied number of things. . . . will the vibrations of the stage knock my keyboard down and cause the drums to stop? will i or julie step on the pedal and make the drums stop? will this fog machine ever cease spouting in front of my face? i wonder what the people watching think about particular parts of the song, or if something sounds really cool. the majority of the time i'm really into it. sometimes, if i make a mistake, i don't let it bother me, i just throw in a few improvisational notes that nobody notices. i'm rarely nervous before a show, mainly the stress of the keyboard and some of my guitar effects.

jeff: the scariest moment is right after the first song ends, that moment in-between when the band stops playing and the audience should applaud. will we hear three people clap, or will the whole place clap, or will we hear crickets? that half- second of silence and wondering feels like an hour- and- a- half.

neil: especially when you play somewhere new.

julie: i guess i really have a different role when it comes to our live shows. i feel like the entertainer. the nervousness factor comes in just before we go on, but the minute i hit the first note i'm fine. i worry sometimes about my voice. when we're doing a show i think, "here i am. this is it, julie. you are standing here on stage. . .what is holding you back? why let anything hold you back?" so i move all over the place, almost like aerobics, and it gets hard to sing and move. but i don't feel that i can do a good job singing unless i can get my body physically into the music as well. its the chance to be everything i can, and people will either like me or not. i try to put as much of myself, physically, spiritually, mentally, and emotionally into our shows. the more we play, the more confident i become, the more natural it feels. sometimes i get really exhausted after a show, and i feel like i'm going to pass out, because the show ends up being a complete catharsis of everything, and i feel emotionally drained and physically exhausted.

jeff: then it's been a good show.

julie: for the most part i don't want people to be distracted by something else while we're playing. i want to make sure that i hold their attention; if the music doesn't, i want to make sure i keep their attention. enough people have come up to me and complemented me on my stage presence, so i guess it works. i'm just one of those kind of people, though- - its all or nothing. sometimes it works against me, but in the live situation i let myself go completely, or else i feel it would be a dead show. the theatrics feel natural.

neil: when i write music, or when i hear music, i see colors. with us i generally see a dark blue or blood- dark crimson. i see the color twirling around all over the place. i don't mean i see the color emanating from the speakers, but i feel it around me. kind of like the force.

julie: another thing that happens to me is that my adrenaline really gets going. by the second or third song, i always feel that there is an energy flow between us three. i will hear neil really jamming, and it sets me off, and i get more pumped. then jeff gets more pumped up, and we feed off each other. i feel that, as a unit,we show confidence, and project ourselves really well.

jeff: we really trust each other. i know that neil will hit the key notes that i need to follow for the changes. i know that he's going to be on- line, and i know that julie's going to be there, and that gives me confidence that i can do my job. adding a fourth member would be difficult to start with, because we'd need to build up the confidence that the person will be able to perform when we need them.

thistle: since julie can play the piano, have you ever considered adding keys into the music?

neil: if we get a real drummer, i'd have to say no to keys. we really wouldn't need to add anything, unless julie really wants to play.

julie: when we're in the studio or practice, i always hear things i'd like to add. i'd love to add keys in the studio, but live i wouldn't be able to. one thing i cannot do is play an instrument and sing at the same time.

neil: studio- wise there will be keyboards. live, however, the only way we'd be able to have them is if we can get better equipment. then i could sequence the keyboards, or i could sit- out guitar for a song and play keyboards. but we'd never add a keyboard player, simply for the fact that our music is more guitar oriented.

jeff: although i don't have classical training, i have been teaching myself to play cello; i'd perhaps like to add that instrument. but i don't play it very well yet, so that won't happen for about eleven years. my little pipe dream is to have two autumns, one doing the rock- n- roll stuff we do now, and the other being very classical, with neil on classical guitar, i would play cello, and julie would play piano. we would be a completely different band, with a completely different feel, but we'd still be autumn.

julie: i think we're capable of that. we could be a different project, because we all have alternative instrument talents.

thistle: the lyrics you write, julie, are obviously very personal. would you mind elaborating on what has influenced some of your songs?

julie: i've always done a lot of writing, primarily as a way to cope with things that have happened in my life. the lyrics are really personal, every song has a story that is specific to events in my life. the story of my life, the history and issues. . . . the first song i wrote with autumn, `a waiting time,' i wrote about trying to deal with issues of sexual violence in my life. other issues i've written about include mental illness, which i've dealt with since i was quite young. growing up i had a childhood very different from most people's. i don't remember much of it, but what i do remember of it remains as a lot of warped shit in my head. i use the band as a good way for me to try and create a picture. it feels good for me to take these events and memories, my feelings and thoughts on them, and try to construct a portrait. it feels like a final way of stating something, naming and claiming it, being able to express it and then let it go. that's very therapeutic for me. i've also really been into creative writing, and have written a lot of poetry, and i've been interested in experimental forms of writing; that may eventually be a part of the book i'd like to publish. i like to challenge myself to break boundaries as far as writing is concerned; what counts as a valid way to portray something. i work really hard on the lyrics, combining all of these aspects, and for me it is very satisfying.

thistle: i think that definitely shows in the songs. are there any writers that you would name as strong influences, not strictly lyrical, but novelists and poets?

julie: my favorite writer is spaulding grey. i also like kathy aker, a contemporary in- your- face, breaking boundaries writer who deals with a lot of controversial issues. spaulding grey is the best example; he writes straight from his mind. he doesn't make his feelings, ideas, and life experiences conform to a standard form of writing. he makes the written form conform to just the way things are in his head. that is the influence, the model that i follow; i make what comes out with pen and paper conform to what is in my head.

thistle: i was wondering where the title for `suffer the wild dogs' came from?

julie: that song to me is a really sad song. its about the environment, and the sadness that i feel as an animal. i think a lot of human beings tend to disassociate themselves, we forget that we're animals, that we're just another living organism, part of the network of organisms. the song is about feeling the connection, feeling the pain of a pack of wild dogs or wolves that are crying for the fact that the earth is being destroyed. their resources are being sucked away. to me it was becoming an animal like that, howling and crying with them as most animals in nature must. another part of the sadness for humans is that we're not aware of our own connections with the earth and environment.

thistle: thinking about and writing a song about a subject like that tends to bring you full circle back to the spiritualness that you feel creating and performing, wouldn't you say? recognizing your humanness, but that you have a spiritual side, too.

julie: i'd say yes. my spiritual identity has really changed a lot, has really metamorphosed, in the last few years. i have a lot of interest in more of the ancient goddess religions that are the root of most of the contemporary religions and spirituality. i'm getting into connections with the earth. . .i feel more of a sense of connection with the earth, the life and death giving forces that perpetuate everything. i wrote another song about that; that's what `desert winds of jezebel' is about. its all part of my personal evolution.

thistle: neil mentioned robert smith and peter nooten as musical influences, and jeff mentioned die kreuzen, but aside from music, what other people have influenced you?

jeff: i love the work of edward gorey. i have this bizarre fascination with children's books, and my favorite author is john bellairs, who writes these little occult books for kids. i credit him for making me start on my darkened path. when i was little kid, and the only one on my block who was into haunted houses, ghosts and other spooky things, john bellairs' books really made an impact on me. i grew up that way; i was always influenced by darker things, and that's why i really like his work.

neil: i parallel jeff in the sense that i've been influenced by darker things. i've always been interested in the paranormal, and vampires. when i was in fourth grade i got a book called 'dracula,' and on the front was one of the wood carvings depicting vlad tepis, the one with all the impaled bodies. i remember my teacher asking, "why did you order this book?" well, because it is about dracula. . .so i've always been interested in haunted houses and the like. when i was growing up i had to listen to what my parents listened to, which was country western, motown and some '50's stuff. i noticed that most of the songs that i like are really dark instrumetally. i really like a lot of renaissance, baroque and medieval music, but all of the songs i like are in minor keys. a lot of people associate darkness with evil, or they think that something must be wrong with you, but for me the darker things are more moving. the darker musical sounds are one of my main driving forces; i think it has more beauty. i am a born again christian, and i look at my musical ability as a gift. i want to please god, first of all, and i want to please myself and others. i'd have to name god as my biggest influence. my spirituality is also a big influence. a lot of early `80's new wave, gothic, and rockabilly music has influenced me. . .brian setzer of the stray cats has really influenced my guitar playing.